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The instant spin on CNN was: draw. But over on NPR they're pointing out that there's a basic drift toward Kerry underway since the first debate,and Bush did nothing tonight to change that dynamic.
It seemed to me that, amid the spray of dubious factoids and statistics, Kerry looked like a calm, strong leader, and Bush offered a more subdued version of his first debate performance: He's still basically someone who believes he's got God on his side, and who are we to question him? And that's a stance that just doesn't wear very well.
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We've covered affirmative action, assault rifles, schools. No questions about energy, the environment. Instead, Schieffer just asked the candidates about their wives. I don't know, it's nice to talk about one's family, but I'd really rather hear these guys address the issues.
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Big softball to Kerry on the National Guard and Reserve being overextended. He cites the president's bad judgment, says the best fix is to "run a foreign policy that recognizes America is strongest when we are working with real alliances."
Bush: The best way to take the pressure off our troops is to succeed in Iraq. To train Iraqis. 125,000 troops trained by the end of this year.
There he goes again, back on the "global test." "I will never turn over our national security decisions to leaders of other countries."
Kerry: The test is not to turn over our security to other nations -- but I think it makes sense, most Americans in their guts know, you ought to pass a truth standard.
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On immigration, Bush charged, with an irate tip of his head, that Kerry doesn't understand the borders if he can say that they're less well protected today than they were four years ago, and Kerry calmly and quietly responded, "4000 people a day." It was a simple but deadly rebuke, that seemed to say, "You can say I don't understand, Mr. President, but I know this stuff inside and out, and it's obvious you don't."
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Bush says, "He talks about middle class tax cuts. That's exactly where the tax cuts went." This is where a real moderator would step in and re-tether the proceedings to reality.
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Social Security: Q to Bush -- where do you get the money?
Bush: "Seniors: You'll still get your checks." Problem is for youngsters. "We need a different strategy." (He looks like he's struggling very hard to remember the facts -- the name "Daniel Patrick Moynihan" seemed to be hauled from the deep lumberroom of memory.)
Kerry: You just heard the president say that young people should be able to take SS money into their own accounts. Disaster. The CBO said there'd bea $2 trillion hole. Today's workers pay into the system for today's retirees. President has never explained where the transitional money comes from.
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Bush is charging Kerry with "no record in 20 years in the senate" on healthcare.
Kerry: 56 individual bills that I've personally written. I was one of the original authors of early childhood healthcare in the 1990s. The president's wrong.
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Salon blogs server, alas, seems to have been brought to its knees by all this activity. I'll keep posting, but I don't think you guys are gonna be reading in real time...
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Here's what Bush said about Osama that he couldn't remember tonight:
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
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Do you believe homosexuality is a choice? Bush: I just don't know. Treat people with tolerance and dignity... I believe in the sanctity of marriage. Defense of Marriage Act.
Kerry: "We're all God's children. If you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter she would tell you she's being who she was born as. It's not choice."
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Bush's cadence is strangely repetitious, and I'm sorry to report it looks sometimes like he's literally frothing. The camera is showing some very unflattering accumulations of what I can only describe as excess spittle.
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Kerry: "Being lectured by the president about fiscal responsibility is a little like being lectured by Tony Soprano about law and order."
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Kerry: "This president is the first in 100 years not to veto a single bill." Bush is replaying the "98 votes to raise taxes" canard. It doesn't seem to matter that this "fact" has been exploded a thousand times.
Bush's shorthand for "pay as you go" is "paygo"???
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Kerry's talking about reinstating "pay as you go" rules for the budget. He sounds calm and confident about improving things; Bush is not as amped as he was last Friday but somehow fidgety and, despite all the coaching, a little petulant.
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Bush: "A plan is not a litany of complaints. A plan is not a program you can't pay for." Of course, the government can't pay for a whole lot of things now that Bush has broken the federal bank...
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Kerry lays out the problems of health insurance -- Bush is struggling not to grimace. "This president has turned his back on the wellness of America."
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CNN's camera is not showing us the traffic light timers...
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Flu vaccine? Bush: "We relied on a company from England." Perfidious Albion! Wait, they're our allies in the war on terror!
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Kerry quoted Bush's line, from 2002, about Osama not mattering that much... And Bush acts as though he never said it.
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Bush: "I've got a comprehensive strategy." The corner of his mouth is curling more than I've seen it before: he's picked something up from his Vice President...
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It's the domestic policy debate but the first question is about whether our kids will ever be as safe and secure as we once were. So here we are again with Iraq and container cargo...
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Looks like Bush winked at Kerry on his way to the handshake...
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Fox's panel of experts was just introduced: Fred Barnes, Mort Kondrackeand William Kristol. Balanced -- and diverse!
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Demonstrator's sign seen over Wolf Blitzer's shoulder during CNN pre-debate: "What's the frequency, W?"
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Today we learned about President Bush's promise to "keep his foot on Kerry's throat," and Bill O'Reilly's claim that one day "Al Franken is going to get a knock on his door and life as he's known it will change forever."
Conservatives or gangsters? Political party or organized crime? We report, you decide.
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I had such fun live-blogging the last debate, I'm gonna do it again.
The words start to flow around 6 pm PST. See you there...
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