MATTHEWS: Let me go to Matt. Do you believe that your candidate, the president of the United States, accurately reflected in his comment that John Kerry called himself-declared himself the anti-war candidate, is an accurate representative of that dial dialogue between myself and John Kerry?
MATTHEW DOWD, SR. STRATEGIST, BUSH-CHENEY ‘04: Yes. Obviously. The impression John Kerry was trying to leave when he was up against Howard Dean in the primary was he was the anti-war candidate after he voted for the resolution. That‘s obviously what he was trying to do. He was trying to leave the impression that he either was the anti-war candidate or was becoming the anti-war candidate.
MATTHEWS: Well, Matt, let me get back to what the president said in Sioux City, Iowa, last week. He said that 220 days ago, it seems to me referring to what John Kerry said on our program, that John Kerry declared himself the anti-war candidate. The question to John Kerry was about whether-let‘s listen to him again. Let‘s get his words now, John Kerry‘s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Do you think you belong in that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war? The way it‘s been fought? Along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean, and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?
KERRY: I am. Yes. In the sense that I don‘t believe the president took to us war as he should have, yes. Absolutely. Do I think this president violated his promises to America? Yes, I do, Chris. Was there a way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable? You bet there was and we should have done it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Let me go back to Matt, again, do you think that was a fair representation, what the president said about what John Kerry said to me?
DOWD: You asked John Kerry a yes or no question. You said, are you the anti-war candidate? And at...
MATTHEWS: No. I said are you one of those-are you one of the anti-war candidates?
DOWD: Yes. And he said, yes, absolutely.
MATTHEWS: No. He said, I am, yes, in the sense that I don‘t believe the president took to us war as he should have.
DOWD: Chris, Chris when you‘re...
MATTHEWS: Do you think that‘s-let me go back to what‘s-let me -
· Matt. I want to be perfectly fair here. Let‘s go back to what you guys have. Eight million supporters of the president received a videotape. Now let‘s take look at the part of it. Here‘s a clip from a video posted on Kerryoniraq.com and produced by the Republican National Committee. Let‘s take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Are you one of the anti-war candidates?
KERRY: I am. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW: Do you think that was a fair cropping of what he had to say? You cut him off after he said, yes. And you did not let him continue on to say: "in the sense that I don‘t believe the president took to us war as he should have."
DOWD: Yes. Senator Kerry said, yes, absolutely, he was the anti-war candidate. So yes, of course it‘s fair.
DEVINE: Chris, it‘s pathetic. OK? And the reason that they‘re doing this is they‘ve got nothing to say about creating jobs, providing health care or dealing with any of the issues that the voters want dealt with in this election.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Matt, are you going to have the president stop saying that John Kerry, on our show, on HARDBALL, because that‘s what he was referring to, clearly, 220 days ago when he said this, are you going to get him to stop saying that John Kerry declared himself the anti-war candidate, which is clearly not what he said because I used the word anti-war candidate and I referred to a number of them? You say what he said on my show and he didn‘t say that. That‘s all I‘m asking.
DOWD: Chris, I would love it if you would play the full 11-minute tape that shows Kerry‘s various positions on the war as it has happened the last two years. I would be happy for to you to play that tape.
MATTHEWS: That‘s an argument you‘re making. I‘m asking you, is the president going to keep saying that something that was said on this show wasn‘t said?
DOWD: Of course he is. Why wouldn‘t he, it‘s what Senator Kerry said?
MATTHEWS: Well, because you might show-why don‘t you show him a tape of the show for 10 seconds so he‘ll get it straight.
DOWD: People, if they want to sign on to our Web site or the GOP Web site, they can see the 11-minute video and they can judge it for themselves.
MATTHEWS: But you cut off the full sentence of John Kerry.
DOWD: Chris, I‘ll let people judge it for themselves to get the full picture.
MATTHEWS: But you don‘t-you can‘t-you‘re not letting them judge it for themselves because you cut off the tape. So it only showed the first part of the sentence so they wouldn‘t get to judge it for themselves, right?
DOWD: No. We have the whole sense of the tape. You just showed on it TV. I think anybody watching this on-tonight on TV would think that Senator Kerry declared himself the anti-war candidate. I don‘t see how anybody watching wouldn‘t tell that.
MATTHEWS: Would you like to have your sentences cut down like to a third of their length and let people decide on the first three or four words what you meant by the 20 words? Let me repeat it again, what he said. I‘m not going to argue this any further tonight. I think you guys should consider taking this off your loop. I think the president ought to be shown this tape so he knows what he‘s talking about, instead of having it fed to him by somebody who doesn‘t show them full sentence. Here it is. Let‘s take it in. Can we show the tape again of John Kerry, what his answer was?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Do you think you belong in that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war? The way it‘s been fought? Along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean, and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?
KERRY: I am. Yes. In the sense that I don‘t believe the president took to us war as he should have, yes. Absolutely. Do I think this president violated his promises to America? Yes, I do, Chris. Was there a way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable? You bet there was and we should have done it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Tad, this is being used to show that Kerry is a flip-flopper and whether he is or is not is not my concern. But my concern is that this show has been used to say that he is. He voted for the resolution. Personally, I have a big problem with that. It was fine. He clearly voted for the resolution. The president is saying he voted for the war. And then the president says after he voted for the war, he said on this show, he declared himself anti-war candidate which he did not do on our show. Tell me what you think about all this.
DEVINE: I think it is a gross distortion. I think it is part of a pattern. I think they‘ve spent $100 million trying mislead the American public and I think they‘re doing it because the president‘s policies have failed on the economy, on health, and on securing the nation. And so as a result, they‘ve resorted to desperate tactics of misleading the American people. It‘s what the Bush campaign is about and unfortunately, this is the latest example.
MATTHEWS: Matt, you‘re laughing. Go ahead.
DOWD: I‘m laughing because this is the same candidate that on national television at his convention said we misled the country in the war. He said that we took the country to war when we wanted to not because we had to. In the course of his Democratic primary, I‘m willing to bet you, if you go ask the Democratic primary voters if they thought John Kerry was the anti-war candidate, they would say that he thought he did.
And now in the aftermath, after the president and we pushed him on it. He said, of course I voted for the resolution. I would have voted for it even without the other information he said we needed. John Kerry knew what he was voting for. He knew what he was voting for in 1991 when he voted against the resolution to go to war. So he knows what these resolutions mean. He said in 1991, it was not to send a message but a vote for war.
MATTHEWS: Matt, there‘s a case where I agree with you. I think that the resolution was a blank check for George Bush to go to war. I completely agree with you. What I disagree with you is that you guys have accurately represented what was said on our program. That‘s what I‘m concerned with. Let‘s take a look. By the way, for people out there who want to judge this for themselves, we‘re going to post, using modern technology, that clip of my interview with John Kerry on our Web site so everybody can look at the whole exchange not just the cropped version put up by the Bush people. Hardball.MSNBC.com. Check it out for yourself.
